Forums

Articles
Create
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Charts problem in estimations: with Story Points and story points estimate estimating sub-tasks also

Federico Varchavsky
Contributor
October 31, 2022

Brief:

US are estimated in Story Points and added to the Story Points fields in each US.

Sprint is Started. All good regarding burndown charts and Insights within the Active Sprint view.

All good for now.

 

Sub-tasks are added to each US.

Sub-tasks are estimated and Story Points added to them.

 

And then... Jira is adding the Story Points twice:

In the sub-taks and in the US.

So the Story Points for the whole Sprint are doubled.

To have the correct Story Points shown, I moved all Story Points to the Story Points Estimated field.

This corrects the total Story Points. But using this option... no more graphics... no more charts. They show no info at all.

 

How can i have the Story Points from the US be the sum of all the Story Points in each sub-task?

This way I can see the progress from each sub-tasks being Done... otherwise, no useful info until the US is Done (which might be anytime within the Sprint duration).

 

2 answers

1 vote
Hamza Chundrigar
Rising Star
Rising Star
Rising Stars are recognized for providing high-quality answers to other users. Rising Stars receive a certificate of achievement and are on the path to becoming Community Leaders.
October 31, 2022

This approach isn't quite right. There are some good explanations by other community members. Instead of repeating it, I'll copy and paste the same here (along with the links of the source article in case you want to reference them).

Source: Click here

Comment by: Nic Brough _Adaptavist_

we should look at estimates in two ways.

There are issue-estimates and sprint-estimates in play here. The issue-estimates are doing what you expect - they're literally an estimate for the current issue (and there's a display of the sum of an issue estimate and all its sub-tasks if you want)

The problem here is with the sprint-estimate. A sprint is a time-box, into which you throw a load of stories (issues) that you commit to achieving inside that sprint. The sprint-estimate is the estimate for the whole sprint. The trick here is to understand that a sub-task is not something you commit to when you're building a sprint. You commit to their parent issue (and hence automatically all the contained sub-tasks if you have any). The sub-tasks are irrelevant when looking at the commitment.

Now, there are a lot of schemes you could try to use for having sub-task estimates, but in off-the-shelf sprint process, they're irrelevant. Atlassian have not tried to build any support for the various sub-task roll-up in sprint schemes, they've simply gone with plain Scrum, where estimates are only for commitments.

So, most of Jira will happily look at your sub-tasks (and their numbers), but the sprint-related stuff (backlog, board, velocity etc) will not, because sub-tasks are not commitable items.

----

Let's say you put in:

  • Story 4 hours
  • Sub-task A: 2h
  • Sub-task B: 1h

Here, your sprint estimate is 4 hours, because Jira does not look at sub-tasks. But the time that non-sprint functions look at is 7 Hours when you're counting roll-ups.

If you then implement "add up sub-task estimates to parent", you end up with a story that says 7h, burns down correctly, but you've actually got estimates of 10 hours because you're now double-accounting the sub-tasks.

Neither of those ways work consistently in Jira. The best option is to not estimate sub-tasks.

 

Source: Click here

Comment by: Nic Brough _Adaptavist_

You should not be putting sprint estimates on sub-tasks. In a sprint, you pick some issues and commit to (trying to) deliver them at the end of the sprint. You do not commit to doing bits of stories. Sub-tasks in Jira are entirely a piece of a story, they are not individual items. So the sprint estimate on a sub-task is utterly useless in itself, your sprint is measured by the stories it delivers, not bits of them.

In reality, there's no problem putting estimates on sub-tasks, it can be very useful (especially in planning, because sizing fragments of a story is usually easier than trying to estimate the whole unknown). But if you're going to do that, you need to think of how the estimates should roll up into the parent, because only the parent is the deliverable and measurable thing.

TLDR: If you are determined to put sprint estimates on sub-tasks, you are going to need to do some scripting or automation that can do the roll-up for you. The most simple solution is just do Scrum properly, which means not estimating sub-tasks.

0 votes
Trudy Claspill
Community Champion
October 31, 2022

Hello @Federico Varchavsky 

The Story Point Estimate field applies only to Team Managed projects. If you are using a Company Managed project, the charts and Insights depend on the Story Point field.

Generally speaking you should not be applying story points to Subtasks at all. Story points are a method for estimating work at the Story level to help you plan your sprints.

Can you provide information on why you are using story points on subtasks?

Why would you estimate the story effort in points before the sprint starts, and then want to change that estimate based on new estimates for subtasks created after the sprint starts?

What problem are you trying to solve with this use of story points on subtasks?

If you wanted to sum up story points from subtasks to their parent story, that is possible to do with automation. However, your velocity and burndown charts are based on the story points on the stories when the sprint is started. You would have to define your subtasks and estimate their story points before starting the sprint.

Federico Varchavsky
Contributor
October 31, 2022

Hello Trudy Claspill, thanks for the response!

 

You said it yourself in your answer: I need to have charts show info about the team progress during the Sprint.

 

What you and Hamza Chundrigar are saying is that if all User Stories are completed on the last day of the Sprint... I'll only have progress on that day show in any chart.

Does this make sense to either of you?

(and I don't want to start messing with team manager vs. company managed project options here since it's not the scope of the question:)

 

In the good old days... the good old post-it notes in the good old fashioned blackboard would easily show progress and how'd working on what every day.

:)

 

Any link to an automation script that I could take as a start to work on my own automation script?

(seems like I'll have to complete the un-offered functionality by design choice, using scripting which is really a great tool if you know how to work it... so any help here would be really appreciated)

 

Thanks for all the help!

Trudy Claspill
Community Champion
November 2, 2022

Hello @Federico Varchavsky 

I am still researching the built in functionality for sprint burndown charts. I'll reply back in a day or two after I've been able to see the impact of different choices in real time.

In the interim I found this post that discusses burndowns from different points of view

https://community.atlassian.com/t5/Jira-questions/Including-Sub-tasks-in-Burndown-Chart/qaq-p/633368

And here is a post that discusses one community member's efforts to incorporate subtasks in burndowns

https://community.atlassian.com/t5/Jira-questions/Configure-Sprint-Burndown-Chart-to-show-number-of-open-Sub-tasks/qaq-p/1124137#M361720

Like Federico Varchavsky likes this
Federico Varchavsky
Contributor
November 3, 2022

Thanks Trudy for you help!

Seems like it's an ancient need from Jira'a customers which Jira does not want to address for some reason.

It'd be so easy to give a choice to users about this.

Looking forward to reading about your research results for choices here.

:)

Federico Varchavsky
Contributor
November 8, 2022

Hi Trudy Claspill,

I was wondering if you had any progress in your analysis or research about this.

I'm currently working with no actual information from charts... which is kind of awkward and not very effective on a daily basis.

Suggest an answer

Log in or Sign up to answer
DEPLOYMENT TYPE
CLOUD
PRODUCT PLAN
STANDARD
PERMISSIONS LEVEL
Product Admin
TAGS
AUG Leaders

Atlassian Community Events